J. Krishnamurti Versus U.G. Krishnamurti

by L. Ron Gardner

Renowned mystic-philosopher Jiddu (or J.) Krishnamurti (1895-1986) had no use for gurus, religion, or even the term “spirituality.” His teachings of self-liberation could, perhaps, best be classified as “radical psychology.” I used to attend Krishnamurti groups in San Diego in the ’70s. I even traveled to Ojai, California, where Krishnamurti lived, to hear him speak. From my perspective at the time, no message could have been more liberating than his.

J. Krishnamurti’s message, in a nutshell, is: practice effortless, choiceless awareness from moment to moment. This will free you from your self-created bondage and enable you to awaken “real intelligence.” Although J. Krishnamurti occasionally alludes to a transcendent dimension, which he calls “the Highest,” he never refers to it as Spirit and doesn’t emphasize mystically uniting with it. Although in his journal, “Krishnamurti’s Notebook,” he describes mystical experiences he calls “the Benediction,” he doesn’t direct spiritual seekers to seek this Blessing; instead, his focus, as always, is on understanding and obviating psychological conflict.

U.G. Krishnamurti (1918-2007), no relation to J. Krishnamurti, was a follower of J. for a number of years, until parting ways with him. Wikipedia describes their relationship and parting as follows:     

“From 1947 to 1953, Krishnamurti regularly attended talks given by Jiddu Krishnamurti in Madras, India, eventually beginning a direct dialogue with him in 1953. U. G. Krishnamurti related that the two had almost daily discussions for a while, which he asserted were not providing satisfactory answers to his questions. Finally, their meetings came to a halt. He described part of the final discussion: "And then, towards the end, I insisted, ‘Come on, is there anything behind the abstractions you are throwing at me?’ And that chappie said, ‘You have no way of knowing it for yourself’. Finish – that was the end of our relationship, you see – ‘If I have no way of knowing it, you have no way of communicating it. What the hell are we doing? I've wasted seven years. Goodbye, I don't want to see you again’. Then I walked out.”

Whereas J. Krishnamurti was an iconoclast who reduced spirituality to psychology, U.G. Krishnamurti was an iconoclast who reduced it to biology. Although J. regularly experienced “the Benediction” apart from “Krishnamurti’s Notebook,” the energetic dimension of Awakening was a subject he avoided in his writings and talks.

In my discussions with the late renowned Advaita Vedanta guru Jean Klein (1912-1998), he made clear to me his taste for J., and his distaste for U.G. Below are my Amazon reviews of J’s “First and Last Freedom” (5 stars) and “Krishnamurti’s Notebook” (3 stars), and U.G.’s “The Mystique of Enlightenment” (4 stars).

A CLASSIC “MUST READ” MYSTICAL TEXT (My 5-star review of J’s “The First and Last Freedom.”]

I first encountered J Krishnamurti's books in the `70s; and I subsequently devoted myself to studying them. I was so enamored with this great mystic's teachings, I became involved with various Krishnamurti discussion groups, and even drove from San Diego to Ojai (around 250 miles) just to see him speak.

As a long-time aficionado of J. Krishnamurti (K), I consider "The First and Last Freedom" to be his best book, the one I recommend to my students. This text is a collection of brilliant, ground-breaking essays by K, and I consider it "must" reading for serious students of mysticism.

K's strength is his ability to reformulate mystical Dharma within a simple but elegant psychological framework. According to K, inner conflict and mental suffering stem from one thing: the avoidance of what is; and all effort, or seeking, is simply the avoidance of what is, Being. As K says, "to be [unqualifiedly] related is to be;" therefore, real intelligence, radical (or gone-to-the-root) understanding, is simply a matter of relationship, of remaining unobstructedly present to life. In other words, a Truth practitioner must, from moment to moment, enact the asana of effortless, choiceless awareness relative to what arises.

Direct, immediate awareness relative to existence = presence + oneness = unity-consciousness, and culminates in mystical relationship, divine communion, or as K puts it, "communion with the Highest."

K's weakness in "The First and Last Freedom" is his failure to address that which stems from "communion with the Highest:"-- the descent of Divine Power (the Holy Spirit, Hindu Shakti, or the Buddhist Sambhogakaya). In "Krishnamurti's Journal," K describes his experiences of what he calls the "the Benediction," the Descent of the Divine; but I do not find his exegesis of spiritual Energy to be particularly enlightening, especially when compared to the ones in some other Dharmas. K's teachings, although brilliant, have rightly been described as "incomplete," meaning essentially limited to the psychological.

Therefore, I strongly suggest that students of Krishnamurti, in order to get a fuller understanding of the spiritual en-Light-enment process, also devote themselves to studying the mystical traditions of Christian Hermeticism, Hindu Advaita Vedanta and Kashmir Shaivism, Tibetan Buddhist Dzogchen and Mahamudra, and Adi Da's Samraj's Daism.

THE DIARY OF A KUNDALINI-CHALLENGED MYSTIC [My 4-star review of J’s “Krishnamurti’s Notebook.”]

"Krishnamurti's Notebook" is a diary the great mystic J. Krishnamurti (1895-1986) kept for a time while travelling. The focus of the diary, kept in 1961, is what he calls "the process," the experience of enlightening, but physically painful, mystical states he experienced on an almost daily basis. In addition to describing his mystical states, Krishnamurti also philosophizes, commentating on the same mystico-philosophical themes he does in all his books.

Krishnamurti (K), a lover of nature, usually describes his mystical states, which he terms "benedictions," in the context of, and sometimes almost coincident with, natural settings, which he also describes in detail. It's as if he were painting a beautiful picture and then seamlessly integrating a "benediction" with it.

If you're a Krishnamurti fan, or just someone who digs the juxtaposition of spirituality and nature, you'll probably love this book--but if you're someone like me, tired of K's endless repetition of virtually the same "psychologized" quasi-spiritual themes in every book, then you'll probably dismiss it as just recycled K in different packaging.

Given my similar history to K's--I suffer from a painful and constant Kundalini energy disorder akin to his and regularly experience "benedictions" just as powerful and enlightening as his--one would think that he'd be my spiritual cup of tea; but he isn't. I much prefer the teachings of Ramana Maharshi, Adi Da, Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, and Christian Hermeticism to his. And I prefer these teachings because they offer much more "verticality" and fullness than K's "flat," one-dimensional, "psychologized" drones.

The first Krishnamurti book I read--"First and Last Freedom" -- remains, by far, the best one I've read (and I've read a number of them). I gave this great book, one of K's earliest, five stars in my Amazon.com review. Unfortunately, none of K's books I've read after "First and Last Freedom" really floats my boat--but that's not to say "Krishnamurti's Notebook" won't float yours. 

THE STORY OF A SNAKE-BIT SEEKER [My 4-star review of U.G’s “The Mystique of Enlightenment.”]

The late U.G. Krishnamurti was the ultimate "spiritual" iconoclast. But perhaps "spiritual" is the wrong term to use when describing U.G, because U.G, in his teachings, reduced spirituality to a biological energetic phenomenon. U.G., who, putatively, gave up all seeking for anything whatsoever, and lived in what he called a "declutched" state, a state wherein one no longer grasps after thought-forms, insisted that spiritual en-Light-enment is a myth, a non-reality rather than the realization of the Real that mystics claim it is.

About twenty years ago, I attended a three-day Jean Klein spiritual retreat at the Mt. Madonna Center in Santa Cruz, California. Jean Klein (1912-1998), a renowned Advaita Vedanta guru, was a very tranquil and composed fellow, but when, in a group Satsang, I broached the subject of U.G., likening some of my symptoms from Kundalini awakening to what U.G. had experienced, Klein almost exploded, and without mincing words, he heatedly described U.G. as "pathological." Thereafter, Klein seemed cool and aloof toward me. Apparently, just by mentioning U.G., I had managed to push some very deep buttons in the guru, who, incidentally, was a friend of J. Krishnamurti, who also vociferously denounced U.G.

I read "The Mystique of Enlightenment" about thirty years ago, and I could really relate to it because, like U. G., I suffered from, and continue to suffer from, a Kundalini disorder. It's as if my body is overamped from intense Shakti--and the more deeply and fully I "declutch," the more powerful is the Spirit-current coursing through me. But after years of endless self-emptying and detaching from thought-forms, I realized that letting go, in and by itself, is not the Way of Truth, the Way to the Real. I realized that it is just one aspect of an integral en-Light-enment, or Divine Yoga, practice. And now, though I have not cut the Heart-knot, I regularly abide in blissful Heart-felt at-one-ment with the Energy that used to just psycho-physically oppress and overwhelm me.

An integral en-Light-enment, or Divine Yoga, practice, which I detail in my book "Electrical Christianity," is about consciously plugging into and receiving and uniting with the Spirit-current. It is akin to Ohm's Law. An integral yogi must generate maximal conscious force ("voltage," or whole-bodily presence + oneness, or communion, or relationship), then utterly self-empty (or "declutch"), which is akin to (Ohm's, or resistance, reduction); then he must consciously receive and unite with the down-poured Spirit-Energy, or Divine Force.

In my estimation, U.G. did not go all the way to full en-Light-enment, or Self-realization. Unlike Ramana Maharshi or Adi Da, he did not awaken as the Heart, the true Self (or Buddha-nature). His practice was one-dimensional; and though he seemingly totally let go, he was guilty of the Great Refusal--the failure to consciously, or yogically, unite with and be Blessed/Blissed, or en-Light-ened, by Divine Light-energy, the Shakti, or Sambhogakaya, or Spirit. The great Christian mystic Meister Eckhart beautifully summarized spiritual life: "I penetrate God, and God penetrates me." Divine yoga is simply uniting the "vine" of one's soul (or consciousness) with universal Spirit (or Energy) and being en-Light-ened by its Blessing/Blissing-current.

In summary, I recommend this book, because it is an interesting read about an apophatic (or "negative") yogi who practiced "poverty" (self-surrender), but not "obedience" (communion, or conscious at-one-ment); and hence his life, though imbued with (lower) Kundalini, was less than Divine, because he lacked the "purity" (Clear Light Energy) that stems from union with the (higher) Kundalini--Mother Shakti, or the Holy Spirit.       

{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }

Michael Hawkins December 21, 2016 at 3:47 am

Thank you for this — and for the term “Kundalini disorder.” I’m finding that, in my own life (since 1994), this life-force-energy has often manifested as fear, anxiety, frustration, anger and rage… followed by spirals of toxic shame. It has simultaneously sustained a constant state of bliss/joy/ecstasy that is difficult to reconcile with the dark intensity listed above. This life-force-energy is neither rage or ecstasy — it is Me. Screaming into a pillow helps.

So far I relate more to U.G. than to J., but I get the most resonance when reading translations of the Pali Suttas that discuss jhana/samadhi. One must watch out for translations of key words that show whether or not the translator is “experienced.”

As a preacher’s kid and Merton lover, I really enjoy the insights and knowledge that you offer through this website. It’s nice to realize that I’m not alone.

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L. Ron Gardner December 21, 2016 at 7:01 pm

Michael, thank you for your appreciation. I can relate to your Kundalini experiences. Interestingly enough, I’m right now devoting my spiritual reading to the Pali Canon and books/writings on the Jhanas. This past week I have read Leigh Brasington’s “Right Concentration: A Guide to the Jhanas,” and Shaila Catherine’s “Focuses and Fearless: A Meditator’s Guide to States of Deep Joy, Calm and Clarity.” Neither text impresses. The best material I’ve found on the Jhanas is by Jhananada (Jeffrey S. Brooks) at his website: greatwesternvehicle.org.

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Michael Hawkins December 21, 2016 at 8:34 pm

Indeed, Jeffrey has been my good friend and teacher since 2000. He was the first person I could find who had direct knowledge of these things, and he’s remained steadfast in his service throughout the time I’ve known him. I have a (really old) entry on the Meditation Teachers page on the Great Western Vehicle page that you posted above: http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/gwvteachingfaculty.htm . He’s been offline for about a week, but I just found out today that his laptop died but he’s doing okay — thank goodness!

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L. Ron Gardner December 22, 2016 at 4:13 pm

Michael, I plan to write a book on Mindfulness a couple years down the road. When I do, I’ll want to get in contact with Jeffrey. In addition to the two books on the Jhanas I mentioned, I’m also going to read Richard Shankman’s “The Experience of Samadhi” and Bhante Henepola Gunatarana’s “Beyond Mindfulness.” I will eventually write Amazon reviews of these books, which is what I’m now doing on Buddhist Mindfulness texts.

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Red December 22, 2016 at 11:16 pm

J (and you) looks like you are bound by concepts, still. UG went beyond all; he let go of everything (watching some of his youtube videos LOL).

To use your terminology, “poverty” and “obedience”, shouldn’t be separate. They are to be expressed/experienced as one. J drowned in his own mind-jail(s). UG, on the other hand, didnt have any concepts (or limits).

speaking of jhanas, which are wonderful practice tools, you (or J) wouldn’t get past 1st(perhaps 2nd) Jhana. In 2nd Jhana and beyond, we are to be of no concepts or separation. Everything is us, annd us, everything. This “everything” includes “nothing” in it too. So “self”, as traditionally defined, wouldn’t make sense beyond 3rd jhana.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-samadhi/jhana.html

your “divine yoga” seems to be a perfection of 2nd Jhana. One can go beyond divine or such concepts.

And, this whole Jhanas thing is just one way to ultimate. There are 3 more ways one can “live smartly” :

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-samadhi/index.html

I personally prefer the Jhanas, but i like the 4th one too ( “what is the development of concentration that… leads to the ending of the effluents?”)

Based on your blog posts, and reviews, i know you have extensive experience in spiritual stuff. what do you think of 6th patriarch / platform sutra.

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L. Ron Gardner December 23, 2016 at 8:57 pm

I highly recommend Hui Neng’s Platform Sutra, It’s in the Highly Recommended category of my Spiritual Reading List, which I include in my spiritual texts.

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Federico December 23, 2016 at 3:37 pm

Dear Ron and Michael,

It´s very interesting what you are talking about.

If you let me and would like to deepen on this subject of the “jhanas”, I dont´recommend books from western masters or teachers. I believe that, general speaking, they are highly superficial and laking of truly insight and pañña (compared to others).

I believe it is much appropiate to go to the original sources, like the ones which came from the masters who learnt and grew iniside the Theravada enviroment – like the great Thai Forest Tradition, namely: Ajahn Chah, Ajahn Budhadassa – very remarkable, both – and, very especifically, Ajahn Mun, a great master and Buddha of the 20th century.

Ron, it is beautiful the phrase from Meister Eckhart you have mentioned. In other words, Saint Agustine of Hippo said this: “Thou must be emptied of that wherewith thou art full, that thou mayest be filled with that whereof thou art empty.”

Sincerely,

Federico

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L. Ron Gardner December 23, 2016 at 8:52 pm

Thanks, Federico. I’ll check out the teachers you recommend, though I’m coming to the conclusion that the Thai and Burmese Theravada “masters,” mainly due to the influences of Buddhaghosa and Abhidamma, don’t teach Mindfulness and Jhanas in a way that I resonate with.

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Federico December 24, 2016 at 3:32 pm

Ron, I agree with you. Thai Masters were, in fact, quite critical with The Visuddhimagga Path, especially Ajahn Buddhadasa Bhikku. Current Burmese Therevada, very influenced by Mahasi Sayadaw Teachings, seems to me to be extremely rigid and lack of heart. Great Thai Masters had others ways of approaching the practice of Insight Meditation.

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antonio October 18, 2017 at 8:38 pm

“I much prefer the teachings of Ramana Maharshi, Adi Da, Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, and Christian Hermeticism to his.” There is nothing better than a good soup.

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IJ October 1, 2018 at 4:40 pm

Both the Krishnamurti’s were more of a joke and circus buffoons rather than full awakened sages who attained nirvana. UG K was simply pathetic claiming forever till he perished that the body is immortal. Seriously, who would want to be born over and over again in a physical body? What a nucase UG K was and Joe Klein was correct to call him pathological.

UG K even met Ramana Maharshi in his early 20’s and asked him quite rudely if Ramana could give UG K moksha to which Ramana said he could but if UG K was ready to receive it. Well 35 plus years later it was Ramana who proved to be right. UG k was not ready and his claim of radical change or fulfillment was nothing but some freakish biological manipulation which amounted to absolutely zilch. Moronic idiots even went to visit UG K and he was rude to visitors. You can hear him speak in You Tube videos and he was nothing but some kind of a freakish monster to say the least. Such a detestable fellow indeed was UG K who made no sense in his talks at all whatsoever.

Even JK ‘s talks amount to much of nothing but self glorification only praising himself to the exclusion of everyone else. It is a wonder these two abominable clowns even became some kind of celebrities.

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L. Ron Gardner October 2, 2018 at 7:13 pm

J. Krishnamurti’s early texts (written in the 1950s)–“First and Last Freedom” and “Commentaries on Living”–impressed me, but nothing he wrote thereafter was on the same level. I think J. Krishnamurti is worth reading, even though he wasn’t Self-realized and reduces spirituality to a quasi-psychological endeavor.

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IJ October 3, 2018 at 2:23 pm

Mr. Gardner,

I have no respect for JK. He was not a Jnani at all. JK may have had glimpses of Reality everyday but then he is not the only person to benefit or suffer from such Reality glimpses. JK deserves no respect and one has to read the book, “Lives in the Shadow with J. Krishnamurti is a 1991 memoir by Radha Rajagopal Sloss” to lose any respect and regards for JK if they have any.

JK certainly did not practice what he preached. JK may have been blessed with no unnecessary thoughts occurring in his brain. JK also did not dream in his sleep. Yes, these two are a blessing and a gift indeed which I will not deny.

But JK was a fraud (not a realized Jnani in the true sense) all along but had the nerve and hypocrisy to call others like Osho Rajneesh (another fraud as well) as frauds. Is it a coincidence that life had to present peoples with two fraudulent clowns, both called Krishnamurti coming from the same state of Andra Pradesh in India?

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IJ October 17, 2018 at 11:15 pm

In spite of what I said of UGK earlier (whom I feel was like an elephant which almost entered Paradise or Nirvanaloka except for its tail) there is an interesting video of his titled “U. G. Krishnamurti: Complete Part 1 – Mystique of Enlightenment – Thinking Allowed w/ J. Mishlove” uploaded by ThinkingAllowedTV.

IJ.

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IJ October 18, 2018 at 1:40 pm

Mr. Gardner,

I am sorry. I take it back. After watching the full video on UGK , I do not recommend that video I earlier recommended to anyone. UGK speaks half-truths because he has not realized the Self like Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi did.

It is nothing but neo-advaita nonsense or even worse than that in the video. As per the video only UGK is right and every other enlightened master ever lived is wrong and is lying.

Both the Krishnamurti’s were half baked seekers where something seriously went haywire. They did not finish their job by pursuing their search like the Buddha and Sri Ramana Maharshi did. It is the case of six blind men who described the elephant, each in his own way.

IJ.

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Yianni October 25, 2018 at 4:22 am

“Thereafter, Klein seemed cool and aloof toward me. Apparently, just by mentioning U.G., I had managed to push some very deep buttons in the guru, who, incidentally, was a friend of J. Krishnamurti, who also vociferously denounced U.G.” I was unaware that JK ever said anything at all about UG. UG absolutely trashed JK (yes snake bitten! I often wonder what upset him so badly) especially in The Mystique of Enlightenement. Do you happen to have any documented evidence of JK’s denouncement? Not Ks style in general but he did at least once take a veiled crack at Osho (but then who could resist!)

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L. Ron Gardner October 26, 2018 at 4:44 pm

No. I don’t have any documented evidence. I heard it from people who knew J. Krishnamurti.

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DKN August 18, 2020 at 9:33 am

The only time I’ve ever read anything at all from JK in relation to UG is from Mary Zimbalist’s 1970 diary, which I therefore assume is an authentic account:

http://inthepresenceofk.org/issues/issue-15/

Halfway down the page you’ll see she writes: “On our walk back toward the car, we passed U.G. Krishnamurti, who gave the Indian salute unsmilingly with a sort of hunched turning away. Krishnaji said after we passed, “I felt something unclean.’”

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Sam Pierce June 2, 2021 at 5:33 pm

After many years of training by the Theosophical Society, J. Krishnamurti just prior to the Cssmic Christ, Lord Maitreya was to descend on him, he rejected all that he had been trained for
During the Jubilee Convention of the Theosophical Society in 1925 a message originating from an Adept was read to the participants. This happened a few days before December 28, when the first overshadowing of Krishnamurti by the Lord Maitreya occurred. A part of the message reads:

“A second half-century of fine promise lies before you. We say to you: You have the power to do more in the immediate future than any other body of men and women has ever achieved before. We say to you: Within this next half century you can make Brotherhood a living reality in the world. You can cause the warring classes, castes, and nations to cease their quarreling, the warring faiths to live once more in brotherhood, respect and understanding. Make Theosophy a living force in your lives, and through your example those class and caste distinctions, which for so long have bred hatred and misery, shall at no distant time come to be but distinctions of function in the common service of the nation-family and of the World-Brotherhood… .”

“It is the Law that Our Blessed Lord comes among you, be His welcome what it may, though even he may not outstay His welcome. And only at long intervals, so far, has He been able to bestow upon you the priceless benediction of His immediate presence in your midst. We have to wait. So be it. Yet, if His welcome lasts, perchance grows, He may dwell long with you, and the doors thus be flung wide open between Our world and your, and between other worlds and yours, that they may become one world, Ourselves restored to Our natural place among Our younger comrades, and Devas and mankind be once more together in happy comradeship.”

Anonymous Master, “A Message to the Members of the Theosophical Society from an Elder Brother,” The Theosophist 47\4 (January 1926), supplement, pp. 3 and 4.

And what did Krishnamurti do? Instead of opening, he slammed the door in Their face.

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JulianGiulio September 17, 2023 at 12:43 pm

UG was alas a bit of a monster; yes, I also think somehow coming to the same conclusion, that he was stuck!
I don’t think JK gave a damn: though he was grateful he as not a sycophant no doubt, I’m sure he thought he just an aggressive disciple that can’t find his goodness (gentleness)

He learned from and investigated his namesake (Jiddu), then utterly castigated him as fake; he shouted at people in his deathbed of all places, liken a cacophony! I mean… No Thankyou!
He had an an occasional nice smile and peaceful demeanour -but was -in general, stuck half way along the path…(it seems for me)
J.K. was the real deal, had been through the whole process and ‘out the other side’ as it were… He taught in his own (very limited, for me) individual way, which was very ‘Aquarian’ (his rising sign): seeing things impersonally, with mental awareness where we would go beyond to the ‘real and only revolution’…
He was quite sharp, -did not really dialogue at al (though he called it a dialogue); rather, He lead his followers through in his way -but neve really ungentle -when one hears him talk.
He was also much more Relaxed and smiley with his friends; and his Commentaries on his own mind Stopping and the benediction from that, are just beautiful, mystical writing, the most intimate by a teacher, who does not turn it into poetry…
He laboured for he does not want to give us the false goodies; it has to be the real -discovered by every man and woman on his own. Short on indulging in easy words about the blissful ‘Beyond’, it slipped out occasionally -with such feeling too, when he said how of we want to be ‘extraordinarily alive; have or uncover our extraordinary Sensitivity and Goodness’ etc.
Getting us to see the horror and cruelties in our world as a direct refection of mankind’s state! It is up to us -if want to live in a Significantly Better world! (His message is Ripe re our current and only-getting-worse Climate Crisis!)

J Klein’s anger (and for me, anger can be a Holy emotion) towards UG, pleases me, therefore…
God knows what he was Shown/Given on his deathbed. I don’t believe in ‘Judgment’ or ‘Punishment’, but I am sure he was alone with that self who was like a restless Fighter… Yes, seriously undeveloped somehow… I hope he is at Peace, now…
I can imagine today’s Rupert Spira stopping him dead in his self-indulgent tracks

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